Just an Idea: MCU's Spider-Man 4

Spider-Man No Way Home Ending. Taken from A.frame.

Over the course of several months, I've been slowly getting back to Spider-Man and it's been great. Very charming and wholesome, no matter what I go through. First time reading Spidey comics series from 2015-2016? It's alright and enjoyable, but could be better (let's not talk about School's Out). Raimi's trilogy? Still awesome! The Amazing films? I haven't really watched them before, I don't think. Overall, I liked them too in spite of clear issues. While right now I started rewatching Spider-Man: The Animated Series, before that I went through Home trilogy from Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Homecoming was great and Far From Home not so much. As for No Way Home, it's very interesting. None of the films in this trilogy are perfect, especially the third one. If you really start to think about film's plot, things start to quickly fall apart. However, its good sides, power of nostalgia and its ending serve as a pay-off for many fans because of what it can mean for this version of certain nobody named Peter Parker. There's a chance for soft-reboot, a clear path towards some awesome Spider-Man stories without heavy reliance on certain Marvel character(s).

Although you can say that's all subjective, which is kind of a point of this post. Usually I write about some gaming nonsense without any logical limits. I know my stupid ideas have next to no chances to becoming real, so why hold myself? This time, I would like to take a different approach. Before writing down some of my personal ideas for yet to be (properly; "Serve no wine before it's time") announced fourth MCU's Spider-Man film, I will set down some limitations and general direction for everything I have in mind.

Setting the Boundaries.

Recent Spider-Man films within Marvel Cinematic Universe happened thanks to collaboration between Marvel Studios & Sony Pictures Entertainment. Both parties have their own ideas, plans and goals. After all, this partnership briefly broke off and No Way Home could've never happened. Not only these live-action rights can be very expensive even by Disney/Marvel standards, I think it's safe to say that Sony will keep Spider-Man to themselves for as long as they can. They have video games from Insomniac Games, animated Spiderverse titles and current Sony's Spider-Man Universe, that I guess can fully be considered a part of Marvel Cinematic Universe.

You know, since No Way Home brought not only two previous versions of Spider-Man, but their villains. There was also a couple of post-credit scenes with SSU's Venom and that great Morbius stuff. Kraven The Hunter & Madame Web are on their way and that's just the beginning. Besides El Muerto and third Venom film, there're at least planned projects for Hypno-Hustler and TV series Silk: Spider Society for Amazon. Deeper you go, more unknown Spidey related characters (it won't be just the 'main ones') start to appear and it's getting more confusing.

Sony is building their own thing that's now actually connected to Marvel's franchise and they're clearly intended to have their own universe with all these characters. And they won't share them with Marvel, obviously. I mean, the aforementioned nonsense with Vulture & Venom in post-credit scenes of Let There Be Carnage, No Way Home and Morbius happened because Marvel Studios wanted to have their own symbiote instead of borrowing Tom Hardy's version. They gifted MCU's Adrian Toomes to Sony in exchange for an opportunity to portray Venom in different way, most likely starting with Peter uniting with the symbiote in either Kang Dynastry or Secret Wars film. Don't forget that both Cindy Moon and Aaron Davis never appeared in MCU after Homecoming. Silk is getting a TV series and Donald Glover works on Hypno-Hustler project.

On top of all that, there's also Silver & Black and I have no idea what's the current state of that one because development hell. It started off as a film that's focused on Black Cat and Silver Sable team-up, but then was split into two solo movies. Afterwards, it was considered as limited series for Disney+ (according to Gina Prince-Bythewood) I think that all of these examples show that you have to be overly hopeful in order to expect Felicia Hardy to debut in Marvel Cinematic Universe. Actor can work in different project and you can also use an excuse of "variants", but I really doubt either Marvel and Sony would like to share more than they have to. After all, there's this quote by Sanford Panitch (President of Columbia Pictures) from 2018:

"We believe Black Cat is enough of her own character with a great backstory and a canon of material of draw from to justify her own film."

On Marvel's front, there's a desire to "do things that have never been done before". There're also two animated series: Freshmen Year and Sophomore Year that take place in alternative universe and kind of goes against "never been done before" part with the likes of Norman Osborn, Otto Octavius and many more familiar characters coming in. While I think it's reasonable to expect one or two characters from cartoons to resurface in potential film as a cameo, I won't expect them taking the spotlight.

Lastly, I will commit to No Way Home's ending and don't even consider bringing back vast majority of Home trilogy's supporting cast (at least, directly). Including Michelle Jones and Ned Leeds. I know how things went in comics with that stupid retconned storyline that also involved everyone forgetting the identity of Spider-Man. It doesn't mean that MCU has to do the same... There's a high chance they would though (Sony would like to get MJ back, at least), but I'm not talking about that. This is that part of the post where I'm going to be likely less realistic because I can and want to.

To The Starting Point.

There're more preparations to be made. Instead of going into this topic "blind", I've decided to take a peek into what's going on with MCU's Spider-Man 4 from the perspective of unofficial news. What kind of leaks appeared on the horizon. While such material shouldn't be perceived as "the truth" since everyone can write convincing and popular "leak" if you know how and what you're doing, I think that cherry-picking a specific direction can provide an interesting starting point for narrative within the realm of possibility. My choice has fallen on article called "What I Heard: What's Next for Spider-Man" on Cosmic Circus. I'm not familiar with this niche and couldn't find (or rather, didn't bother to dig deep enough) anything that would prove their credibility, general consensus appear to be that Cosmic Circus is one of more trusted source of inside information on Marvel Studios' projects. Even then, it's always important to keep a certain degree of skepticism.

One of their sources talked about new Spider-Man film coming out close to the end of MCU's Phase 5 with a number of changes in Marvel's release schedule following soon. Cosmic Circus also heard that fourth Spider-Man film within MCU might deal with the aftermath of Daredevil: Born Again series, and they also suggested that it would deal with good old street-level threat. No symbiote yet, which is something I commented on before. Actually, I suspected new Spidey films only after Secret Wars (and still do, in some way) since it makes too much sense. This Peter Parker almost killed Green Goblin near the end of No Way Home, which might become an important detail for future dark suit story. During an interview with Josh Wilding, Tom Holland was asked about his interest in having a cameo in Fantastic Four film (Jon Watts was still its director back then). His answer was curious and right in a way that Tom said that Spider-Man "needs to take a break": let him breath, figure out the tone for new story and listen to the fans. It could've been cool to see Spider-Man show up, but it would undermine "the grand return"... and that's likely not something Sony would agree to, not for Disney+ projects like She-Hulk Attorney at Law (its creators really wanted him) or even new Daredevil series. Spider-Man was name-dropped in both Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness and Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania's trailer though and will keep that in mind.

How important Daredevil: Born Again can be for new Spider-Man story? Many people out there seem to suspect that storyline of the series and would center around Wilson Fisk becoming the mayor of New York City, which would be pretty important for the street-level side of MCU, especially for Matt Murdock. Kingpin already appeared in Hawkeye series and will have a role in Echo. While originally Fisk was introduced as Spider-Man's enemy, many people nowadays are more likely to associate with Daredevil. Two New York heroes teaming up against Kingpin could be pretty awesome. Many people would like to see this happen, actors would most likely interested in this as well and Marvel themselves surely knows that. Should this happen right now though? In Spider-Man film?

That definitely won't happen in a TV series. This is a double-edged sword: people want Spider-Man & Daredevil team-up against Kingpin, but they also want to get solo Peter Parker story that doesn't involve having a major Marvel character having a significant role in there. The second option seems better to me at this point of time with everything that was established before so far. After all, Daredevil will appear in Freshmen Year. Maybe Kingpin would join the party too. Ideally, the live-action team-up should happen in... I don't know, Defenders film? I'm sure you get the idea here. That doesn't mean that Born Again shouldn't have an influence on fourth Spider-Man film. Both Matt Murdock and Wilson Fisk can still show up there, but in a minor role. To be more specific, the recent New York City's mayoral election could be important for this Spider-Man story.

Protagonist.

However, I think it's best if we start off with Peter Parker himself. He's having a fresh start since everyone forgot about his existence. Spider-Man and the events of Home trilogy weren't erased, but the ending of No Way Home had a significant impact on Peter. This in a way mirrors the way how real life goes after you graduate from high school. You were used to this environment and social circles, but eventually it ends. And what happens next? You never see most of those people again. Maybe you stay in touch with a few friends, but many friendships immediately or briefly fade away. A blank slate. Life is different now. Every person handles this differently, and some people often struggle with moving forward. Not just the nostalgia for good old days, but regretting your past decisions, wishing things could've played out differently. You can feel like you messed up big time. That it's best to just stay away from everyone because you only make things worse. Obviously, such mindset doesn't help you with daily routine and opening up to others.

That's where Peter Parker is in this story. His new normal life is more of an afterthought, but Peter still attends college after studying for GED. Most likely Empire State University, but it probably won't be as prestige as in comics. More like a community college instead. How he was even able to get into any kind of college if Peter Parker never existed? Well, there was this event called "The Blip" and who knows how messy that five-year period got: I don't think Marvel Studios really knows either. Peter definitely could use The Blip as an excuse to "recover" all necessary identity documents. This is very simple idea, really. Coming up with a backstory just in case shouldn't be a problem for Parker, even if it ends up being not perfect. It would be good enough to achieve this specific goal of being able to attend a college, rent an apartment and get a job. To have a bare minimum for living.

Being a Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man is Peter Parker's top priority. There's no personal life or real ambition beyond that. He's fine with his small flat and what he can afford, even though he often struggles with paying rent. There's not much of a challenge and demand from college Peter attends (from his perspective), so he's doing all that's necessary and nothing else. Parker works for The Daily Bugle because, in spite of his opinion on it and John Jonah Jameson specifically, it's simply more efficient to take photos and/or videos of Spider-Man instead of spending more time trying to do something else. Although he occasionally goes to Food, Emergency Aid, Shelter & Training (F.E.A.S.T.) Community Center as volunteer because Aunt May used to work there. Some people are trying to get to get to know Peter better, but he's determined to keep his distance.

Obviously, it's going to be a personal story about Peter Parker realizing that there's a place for him as a person in this world after all. Not just as a superhero. That he doesn't have to be alone. About him coming to terms with the past, understanding that he can't go back (sounds ironic, I know), letting it go and finding inner piece. While this post is about one film specifically, I think it's a solid theme for an entire trilogy. I also see it as a story of Spider-Man fighting ghosts of his past and overcoming his inner demons. Film's opening could mirror the one from Homecoming with a sad tone throughout it. Not only should it recap the previous trilogy, but also establish where Peter Parker is at this point in time.

Let's go back to Born Again connection. Imagine that there's a moment in one its episodes where Daredevil discovers that F.E.A.S.T. is somehow involved with the criminal side of New York. Matt's hands are full with Fisk running for mayor and whatnot, so instead he decides to relay this information to Spider-Man and let him handle that. Even though Peter may prefer to work alone nowadays, they're on good terms. From Murdock's current perspective, he still defended Spidey with May Parker & Happy Hogan being involved. He knows that Spider-Man blames himself for May's death and cares a lot about her last place of work. Peter would obviously have a personal connection to F.E.A.S.T. after everything he went through, so just imagine how he might feel about such news. From denial to broken heart and absolute anger. Especially after meeting the main villain.

I almost forgot about the costumes. Marvel needs as many toys as they can get. While I would've loved to keep that nice new suit, you can be sure that Spider-Man will have different appearances throughout the film in order to prove them an excuse for creating more merchandise. The latest suit can and will be damaged during some fights, which is a plus since you may as well count it in as another toy. Only variation I can truly envision is something close to "Quick Change Spidey" (this modded version) from classic Spider-Man game. Maybe an updated version of Homemade costume from Captain America: Civil War and Homecoming because Peter just doesn't have materials to fix current suit at the moment.

Antagonists.

Let me start this segment of the post with the following segment: this is not Mac Gargan. No Scorpion here, not this time. Spider-Man's rogues gallery is vast, but we already saw pretty much every major villain on big screen and I previously established a number of limitations. There're older and more recent films from Sony, upcoming projects and an animated series from Marvel. So I have to think about characters who might be in this grey area where they might be not as important to Sony and Marvel for aforementioned releases. While this might sound like a rather tricky situation, there's a positive side to it with a sizeable room for experimentation and switching things up. That's what I will do.

How does F.E.A.S.T. fit into all of this? In the comics, this organization was created by Martin Lee. He's also a villain called Mister Negative, who lead Inner Demons gang. You likely know him from Marvel's Spider-Man game for PlayStation 4, where Martin had a major role in its main storyline. That's actually the reason I'm actually not considering him: while Mister Negative is a great choice here, it's just too similar to Insomniac Games' release and I think it's one of those cases where Sony would rather keep Martin closer to themselves. But F.E.A.S.T. still exists in MCU and I think its founder this time should be Roderick Kingsley: wealthy fashion designer who formed this organization in order to help the community since he once was in similar position.

Although he became a billionaire by getting his hands dirty, Roderick's intentions start off as mostly good. He works on both fronts (civil & criminal) in order to help out people in need while also benefitting from it personally. Things go so good for him that Kingsley decides to join New York's mayoral race, but ends up losing to Wilson Fisk. Obviously, his next course of action would be hunting down new mayor of New York City as Hobgoblin... Yes, I'm serious. I know this might seem as an odd choice, considering that No Way Home had Green Goblin as de facto main antagonist. Those are two similar villains, why choose him? That's exactly the reason for it. Oscorp doesn't exist in MCU's main timeline and I really don't think you should expect a sudden appearance of Osborns there: they're more likely to stay as an exclusive feature of Marvel's upcoming animated series.

How exactly does Hobgoblin appears this time? Well, it shouldn't be too difficult for Roderick to design a similar costume to that crazy guy who killed his employee. Perhaps Kingsley personally knew May Parker and they were on good terms with each other, which is the reason why he decided to create Hobgoblin: to turn Green Goblin into the symbol of hope for F.E.A.S.T. and New York City. Using all the video and photo evidence, perhaps Kingsley got Tinkerer from Homecoming to reverse engineer the Goblin. It results in a creation of exoskeleton instead of a formula because there's really no way for them to know about it. While there're also glider, various bombs and shock gloves. But as he tries to take down Fisk, Roderick becomes more and more villainous. I think it would be cool to borrow a moment from The Animated Series (that's my source of inspiration here) where Peter ends up saving Kingpin as Spider-Man from Hobgoblin. Speaking of which, I even have an actor in mind! Not only Mark Hamill voiced Hobgoblin in aforementioned animated series (although not Roderick), he also wanted to play Vulture in Homecoming:

Mark Hamill: "I don't want to jeopardize any potential I might have in future Marvel films. I had my fingers crossed that Michael Keaton would turn down the Vulture, but darn it!"

<...>

Mark Hamill: "There's not a lot of villainous roles for senior citizens, so I had my eyes on the Vulture..."

Not only Mark is just great, but he also has that prior experience with the character. People will love it! All of that wall of text does sound like Homecoming though, right? Is it just me? Marvel & Sony can definitely play it safe. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" type of thing. I've also just realized how take on the character serves as sort of amalgamation of Home trilogy's main antagonists: look after citizens in need, become a heroic icon and "conquer" New York. That wasn't intentional, but it is great for the role Roderick Kinglsley is taking in this narrative. Which is to test Spider-Man and see what he learned from those past life lessons.

Besides Hobgoblin and Tinkerer, I think this story should have Bennett Brant as Crime Master. Someone who does all dirty work for Roderick Kingsley. Everyone believes that Crime Master is behind all of it, but it's just Hobgoblin pulling the strings. Maybe it started off as Bennett paying up some kind of debt to Kingsley, but then he embraced this job with blackmail playing a certain role in their stable partnership. Crime Master could exist simply to be crushed by Hobgoblin in Roderick's original vision, but afterwards Bennett can be useful to Kingsley as a way to establish an alibi for himself when things go south. Will Crime Master survive in this movie? Definitely not.

Supporting Cast.

Firstly, I've already mentioned Matt Murdock as part of potentially mandatory Marvel cameo. Daredevil's role in this scuffed idea of mine isn't as prominent as most people would likely want to, and I've already talked about it before. You can have a scene where Spidey jumps into another brawl at Hell's Kitchen because he was web swinging close by. Afterwards, Man Without Fear tells Spider-Man about his discovery from Born Again series: it could be some goon saying that he was recruited at F.E.A.S.T. by Crime Master or something along those lines. They have a chat about it with Web-Head doubting Daredevil, but their dialogue ends on positive note with Matt trying to share some words of wisdom. Do they stumble upon each other not as superheroes? No idea, probably not.

Not only you can now properly explore this iteration of The Daily Bugle, you also have to remember about a few notable characters associated with it as they would form a significant portion of this Spider-Man's supporting cast. Starting with J. Jonah Jameson, obviously. Establish the similarities and differences between him and Sam Raimi's trilogy variant because this Jameson haven't really got a lot of time in No Way Home. Now there's surely more room for his glorious reports and more active role in the story with Jonah being Kingsley's supporter (or even a friend) and reporting about Crime Master being either Spider-Menace in disguise or his main accomplice.

Betty Brant still works at The Daily Bugle. Not as an unpaid intent now, but a reporter. She also goes to the same college as Peter and, naturally, tries to become friends with him since they run into each other at work to no avail. Even after Strange's spell, Betty remained a fan of Spider-Man since he saved her life multiple times. This is why she approaches Wall-Crawler for help with her brother Bennett, believing that he's involved with wrong people. Brant's personal investigation point her towards darker side of F.E.A.S.T., Crime Master and Hobgoblin (including uncovering of their identities). This puts a target on Betty's back much to Peter's dismay.

Randy Robertson is Peter Parker's neighbor and social activist who often gets himself into trouble. For example, getting suspended in college. Randy could help Peter with getting work at The Daily Bugle. Despite this, Parker would be "too busy" to hang out with Roberson. Although both of them volunteer at F.E.A.S.T. Community Center, Randy is much more active there and eventually gets dragged into its criminal activity until he faces Spider-Man. He gets caught by superhero, but this goes not in a way Robertson expects: instead of leaving him to the police, Spidey convinces him to rethink his life (yes, like with Hobie Brown in comics) and lets Randy leave "one last time".

Captain Jean DeWolff actively cooperates with Spider-Man. As far as I'm concerned, there's no George Stacy and Yuri Watanabe as they're likely to be in Sony's backlog. Her tough and serious attitude are a result of difficult childhood and not getting snapped. She shared that fate with her brother Brian, who unfortunately dies in that five-year period. They were close to each other and this leaves Jean heartbroken. Both of them were fans of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. Captain DeWolff continued to support Spidey after he returned and eventually starts working with him to honor her deceased brother.

I'm not so sure about Joseph "Robbie" Robertson. We already have both Jonah and Betty, so there's no way for Daily Bugle's editor-in-chief to not be there. This could happen in case Sony decides to use Daily Bugle in Sony's Spider-Man Universe more prominently than some newspapers appearing here and there as they would need some characters there. I can see them ignoring his son, but Robbie himself... Who knows. Let's assume that Marvel Studios got full trio. One idea I had for Joseph is turn him into retired Tombstone, but Lonnie Lincoln supposedly appears in Freshmen Year (it's stated here and there, but I wasn't able to find convincing source). Of course, you can still go with an idea to have this connection to animated project: like, he's older and looks different in main timeline, changed name and got a son. Besides that, I don't really have much else in mind: just a decent man who supports Spider-Man and stands up for his co-workers against J. Jonah Jameson whenever its necessary.

That's all what I have in mind for Peter's new supporting cast. You know, the ones who would be present over the course of entire trilogy. Except for Matt Murdock, potentially. I don't have anything specific in mind for more minor characters. I mean, Flash Thompson could return after getting expelled from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) due to backlash over deceitful nature of his Flashpoint book and its misleading marketing. Maybe there's also a minor appearance of Stanley Carter, Jean's colleague. Another potential characters include Anna Maria Marconi, Miles Warren and Spencer Smythe as professors in Peter's college. Delmar's Deli-Grocery could also be brought back.

Conclusion.

That's about it, for now. I have some general ideas for entire trilogy, but this "article" is directed specifically towards theoretical MCU's Spider-Man 4 for more focused approach. While I don't have any specific title, I think that "Neighborhood trilogy" is the best and most obvious choice to go for. Okay, how about Spider-Man: Distant Neighborhood? It correlates with Peter's state of mind and film's title could be a great way to communicate its current status throughout this trilogy as this time it's supposed be more personal and independent story. I think two other titles are obviously, but I'll keep you in the dark.

In all honesty, this went way better than I thought it would. As I started to write all everything, new and different ideas started to pop up in my head. I was considering to challenge myself with more creative types of writing, and it seems that's exactly what I needed. This experience was really energizing and amusing. Successful experiment, if you ask me. I hold off from teasing certain elements of next two imaginary films in case I end up write more Just an Idea posts like this. That's just a matter of time now, and I'm not going to give any promises, but the last paragraph of Supporting Cast and some other details here sort of offer a glimpse into what I have in mind.

Just have to watch more The Animated Series and brainstorm the approach to fifth film. Due to established limitations and starting point, Spider-Man gets next solo film after Secret Wars, and he'll start off with symbiote costume. Just how important latest Avengers movies would be for this chapter of Peter's story? It shouldn't be that different from Far From Home, but there're multiple questions that require answers: Spidey's behavior over the course of two films, will he reunite with Peter 2 & 3 (and how Raimi's Spider-Man would react to new suit), will Venom from SSMU appear and I probably miss something.

On the other hand, next "articles" will be shorter in comparison to this one. Brainstorming shouldn't take a long time since I already laid down the groundwork. Perhaps this would allow me to put more work into the plot itself. Speaking of which, I should at least offer some kind of conclusion to Distant Neighborhood. Hobgoblin would serve as another test of Spider-Man's moral compass and Peter's mental well-being. As far as he's concerned, Kingsley digs himself a grave by tarnishing F.E.A.S.T.'s reputation, betraying Aunt May, ruining the lives of many people, causing destruction in New York and personally killing Bennett Brant. Their final fight lead Peter to familiar crossroad where he spares Hobgoblin's life without outside interference and Roderick gets arrested by Captain DeWolff.

Randy Robertson starts to put his life back together, much to his father's relief. J. Jonah Jameson isn't happy about this outcome not only because some wounds can't be healed, but because Spider-Menace escaped justice once again. Betty Brant is grieving for her killed brother, but tries her best to move forward. Thankfully, she now has a friend who is there for her. Peter not only tries to comfort Betty, but also stops avoiding Randy and other people. Even though this journey was pretty grim, at the end our hero came through more hopeful than ever. He visits May's grave once again and this time Peter Parker is at ease with himself. Final scene shows Spider-Man overlookng New York with a stone gargoyle by his side. They're having a great conversation until he gets a call from Jean DeWolff, who asks Spidey for help with some ongoing situation. Here's your traditional final swing.

Credit Scenes.

Initially I wanted to end this post here, but then I recalled the topic of leaks after referring to them before. There're all kinds of "truthful insides" out there because, again, everyone can write one and publish it on 4Chan or somewhere else. Leaks often describe mid/post-credit scenes of specific film and I thought "Hey, how about I come up with something?" It does feel like a weird decision since I didn't get a full plot written down: it's more of a synopsis or pitch, which is fine by me. Does it really matter? Probably not.

Mid-credit scene shows Spider-Man & Daredevil sitting at the top of some roof with a few boxes of pizza. They're talking about things like recent world events (that reference other MCU films & series) and/or their past experiences, eat pizza and have friendly banter. At some point, DD looks in two different directions and tells Webhead that it's time to go back to work. Spidey doesn't believe him initially because he used that joke before twice, but then he can hear police siren. Daredevil stands up and chuckles.

Post-credit scene takes place in New Mexico. Man walks alone through desert. This person is painfully thin and clearly tired, but walks very slowly with emotionless face. Eventually, wanderer gets close to a road and just falls to the ground. Car was driving nearby and it stops close as driver noticed this unfortunate soul. A good samaritan leans over this man and speaks to him, trying to wake him up. As driver tries to check man's pulse, symbiote jumps out of now dead body and claims his new host.